Brecon Beacons are no more

[Gower Ranger]

I've been learning Welsh for a couple of years as it's quite widely spoken around here. Three of my immediate team are fluent and for some of my patients it's their first language.

Plenty of Welsh language TV and radio for me to practice with, too. The main barrier to speaking it is not knowing who speaks it. The health board has "I'm a Welsh speaker" or "learner" lanyards for holding hospital IDs, so patients know they can use Welsh, which helps.

It's a fascinating language and fun to learn, though the difference between North and South variants is quite marked for a learner.

The pronunciation of the written language can seem perplexing at first but soon becomes clear. Much harder for me are the mutations (essentially, multiple spellings for words, determined by surrounding words/context) and the numerous words for "yes" and "no".

Overview of mutations:




So Caerdydd (Cardiff) can also be:

Gaerdydd (soft mutation)
Nghaerdydd (nasal mutation)
Chaerdydd (aspirate mutation)

Yes/no: In Welsh, there isn’t a single pair of words that corresponds to ‘yes’ and ‘no’. Your answer depends on who you're referring to, which tense the question is in and how emphatic you want to be. It's a "call and response" structure, so the "yes" or "no" uses the verb that was in the question, including tense and person. Essentially, you are echoing the question in your response.

An example of how this might look in English:

Q: Do you have a tent?

Would be answered "I do" instead "yes".

Q: Did they arrive late?

Would be answered: "they did"

There are variations to complicate things and keep it interesting (Oes, ie/nage), naturally.

Welsh is not the only language like this.


Difficult though the spelling and syntax may seem to an English speaker, it can't be changed; you might as well start from scratch and call it Esperanto.

 

[MaC]

We use that kind of response too, sometimes with a double up though.
"Aye, they did", kind of thing

It can depend on the emphasis given in the question though; if it is, "Do you have a tent", then the response would include the I / first person pronoun.

 

[Gower Ranger]

The National Park formerly called the Brecon Beacons no longer exists. The area where it used to be is now called Bannau Breycheiniog.
It is a response to global warming, presumably it is to stop all those tourists who managed to find it previously from shitting in the lay byes.
The plan is if you cant find it on a map, you wont want to go there.

I'm all for Welsh places having their Welsh names used instead of the English or anglicised version.

I'm ambivalent about making-up a Welsh name for a place, as has now been done with the Brecon Beacons.

The new logo is hardly welcoming though, looking like a military insignia with its drab colours and "spiky fence".

 

[Greg]

Yes/no: In Welsh, there isn’t a single pair of words that corresponds to ‘yes’ and ‘no’. Your answer depends on who you're referring to, which tense the question is in and how emphatic you want to be. It's a "call and response" structure, so the "yes" or "no" uses the verb that was in the question, including tense and person. Essentially, you are echoing the question in your response.

That's interesting. Brazilian Portuguese does have yes and no but they use this structure in conversation.

Q: Did you go?

A: I went

Etc

 

[Gower Ranger]

That's interesting. Brazilian Portuguese does have yes and no but they use this structure in conversation.

Q: Did you go?

A: I went

Etc

In welsh, this would use "do" for "yes" (or "naddo" for "no")

Did you go? Yes

Est ti/aethoch chi? Do

Disclaimer: I'm probably wrong as I get confused with this!

 

[MaC]

That is a rather brutal looking sign, isn't it ?
It's like a computer version of a reenactor's idea of a medieval warlord's 'insignia'

 

[BorderReiver]

That is a rather brutal looking sign, isn't it ?
It's like a computer version of a reenactor's idea of a medieval warlord's 'insignia'

The spiky bits look like the top of a beacon, no idea about the top half of the sign.

 

[MaC]

I'm sure you're right, but a beacon is a fire thing though.
It doesn't quite work somehow.

Just my opinion, I'm sure that one way or another they spent a great deal of money on it's conception/development/choice.
Was it a competition ?

M

 

[Gower Ranger]

That is a rather brutal looking sign, isn't it ?
It's like a computer version of a reenactor's idea of a medieval warlord's 'insignia'

I read some PR blurb about the renaming and the logo; you aren't far from the truth with the medieval warlord thing. King Brychan, in this case. Brycheiniog (in the new name of the beacons) is referring to the old castle of King Brychan.

 

[bushwacker]

I can never understand how coming up with Logos or adverts cost any money , let alone £1000s. Just ask the local kids or art college and a better option could be made for fuk all.

 

[Gower Ranger]

The spiky bits look like the top of a beacon, no idea about the top half of the sign.

I'm sure you're right, but a beacon is a fire thing though.
It doesn't quite work somehow.

Just my opinion, I'm sure that one way or another they spent a great deal of money on it's conception/development/choice.
Was it a competition ?

M

The PR release about the logo was in welsh only:



"The brazier is a nod to the past, while also representing a majestic crown. Deeply connected to the new name, the crown is a powerful tribute to a rich heritage."


---


"Our Peaks
The majestic silhouette of Pen-y-Fan and the surrounding mountainous horizon embody our visual identity, symbolizing the striking beauty of our landscape and a commitment to protect our beloved National Park for future generations."

-----



"Our Waters
One line cuts through our landscape, reflecting the waters of our rivers and waterfalls. It reminds us of support to provide clean and sustainable water resources for our National Park."

-----



"Our Guiding Light
The bright star celebrates our International Dark Sky Sanctuary Status, symbolizing hope and inspiration to honor the past while pursuing a brighter future."


-----

 

[Gower Ranger]

I can never understand how coming up with Logos or adverts cost any money , let alone £1000s. Just ask the local kids or art college and a better option could be made for fuk all.

Exactly this.

Someone on a friend's page came up with one in 2 mins after seeing the new logo.

 

[Greg]

I can never understand how coming up with Logos or adverts cost any money , let alone £1000s. Just ask the local kids or art college and a better option could be made for fuk all.

Because those people grow up and want compensation for their talent and skill. True of all the arts.

 

[Saint-Just]

Difficult though the spelling and syntax may seem to an English speaker, it can't be changed; you might as well start from scratch and call it Esperanto.

The strange thing is, Breton, Irish and Welsh share a common origin, as already discussed on this site or the previous one. I can't be bothered to try reading any of the later 2 but Breton is as easy (or difficult ) as English, with only "ch" different to how you would naturally say it (similar to German pronunciation). Sure, words termination change depending of context but remain legible.

 

[noddy]

Because those people grow up and want compensation for their talent and skill. True of all the arts.

Last place I worked, every year someone (a new one each year) would come from the local Vancouver cherry blossom festival and ask if they could get our graphics students to design and produce large banners and posters to promote/celebrate the event. For free, of course. They would get pretty angry when we'd ask how much will they be paid. Invariably, they'd say that this is a great learning opportunity for them. The entitled imperiousness that accompanied the remark was probably the most annoying thing about living in the city. Unfortunately it pervaded almost every meaningful aspect of personal interaction. I sometimes wondered if they'd ever tried to get their car fixed that way, have a hernia repaired or get a divorce.

 

[Saint-Just]

My Google-fu is weak but ISTR a sarcastic animation with robot-like characters between a designer and a client on that topic.

 

[Jaggededge]

I've just spent the last hour trying to pronounce it and I'm now sat looking at a demon that wants to know why it's been summoned.

 

[BorderReiver]

Last place I worked, every year someone (a new one each year) would come from the local Vancouver cherry blossom festival and ask if they could get our graphics students to design and produce large banners and posters to promote/celebrate the event. For free, of course. They would get pretty angry when we'd ask how much will they be paid. Invariably, they'd say that this is a great learning opportunity for them. The entitled imperiousness that accompanied the remark was probably the most annoying thing about living in the city. Unfortunately it pervaded almost every meaningful aspect of personal interaction. I sometimes wondered if they'd ever tried to get their car fixed that way, have a hernia repaired or get a divorce.

A bit akin to restaurants and pubs trying to get musicians to play "for exposure".

 

[MaC]

A bit akin to restaurants and pubs trying to get musicians to play "for exposure".

I hate hearing that. Musicians are so poorly paid, yet they can make or break an event. Treat them well, pay them fairly and they'll make the place jump

I feel sorry for folks who are pressured and are desperate for the start,and cave. Like the folks working heritage sites for 'experience' and only given free accomodation....often in the most awful buildings. It's exploitation.

 

[Gower Ranger]

 

[BorderReiver]